03 December, 2012

Your weekly musicians' ads.

This is a thing. That happened.

The Red Sea Is looking for New Bands (The RED SEA)


Date: 

Looking for NEW original bands to play, specifically Punk, Indie, Metal, Rock. Be young and hungry!, bring a bunch of people and you will get paid. All ages of musicians are welcome. If you arent going to get your friends, parents and friends parents to come check you out - dont bother. That's a little harsh but, OK, maybe you're new to marketing.

We have many weekdays available in Decemeber - but they are filling up fast - hit me up.
  • Location: The RED SEA
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Re: The Red Sea Is looking for New Bands (The RED SEA) (Out and About)


Date: 

Weeknights at the Red Sea? Is this for bands who think the Terminal Bar is too classy? Am I supposed to go "oh, snap" to that or something?
  • Location: Out and About
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Re: The Red Sea Is looking for New Bands (Cedar Riverside)


Date: 
Reply to: see below

"If you expect the bands to do your promotion for you and if you don't have regular patrons who will support your bar and the bands you book and DON'T PAY - don't bother."

"If you arent going to get your friends, parents and friends parents to come check you out - dont bother."
  • Location: Cedar Riverside
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RE: RE: The Red Sea (All Over)


Date: 
Reply to: see below

I find it humorous that people who play in original bands actually expect to get paid without doing any leg work. If you want that go join a cover band. The red sea puts an ad in city pages and thats way more than most jaded original bands do for promotion. Yeah, it's not at all like there are a bunch of twenty somethings who own staple guns for the sole purpose of putting up fliers! Bands don't at all go out and hustle to every light post and campus bulletin board, send their CD-Rs to college stations, or send out mass emails to their friends or anything like that. That doesn't ever happen. It takes 20 people to pay the sound guy. Does it? Does it really? Another 8 to pay the person sitting at the door (who usually is the promoter You mean the guy who thought his job began and ended with putting an ad in the City Pages? and usually gets stiffed and ends up sitting there the whole night for nothing because some certain original bands only draw 3 people because they dont hustle. The promoter gets stiffed? The promoter? Are you fucking shitting me? You're telling me that the promoter gets fucking stiffed.
Jesus ice-cold Christ, that's rich.


Face it people it's Minneapolis, and nobody cares about the music you wrote unless you hustle and make it happen for your self Good talk, Dad. - we are not running any type of scam. We are actually providing a stage for new original bands to play. I know those of you that have been around the block are too good for this venue - but for bands just coming out of the garage it is an opportunity to get started and get your name out there and hopefully their dreams come true Excuse me? and they do it the entrepreneurial "American" way, What? by themselves.

So sorry if my call out for new bands offended you grizzled vetrens who expect to be paid even if you only bring your wife and two friends.
  • Location: All Over
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RE: RE: RE: The Red Sea


Date: 

Do you guys still employ child molesters?
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RE: RE: The Red Sea (All Over) (NW MPLS.)


Date: 

"I find it humorous that people who play in original bands actually expect to get paid without doing any leg work."

Uhmm, last time I looked it's your venue that bands are playing at. What this means is that it's ALL you. PERIOD! Uh, wait a minute, guy. This is not a black and white thing here.

If you have a halfway decent venue and have decent food, drinks, and bands play on a regular basis, there's no need for the proverbial "legwork", as you call it. Granted bands should always be in self-promotion mode, That's reasonable. but it should not be a pre-requsite in order to play your venue. It is neither ethical or even moral to expect a band to be advertising for YOU and providing a financial safety net for you regardless if they're well known, unknown,indie,cover, original or whatever. While I agree with you, I don't think the guy posting on behalf of the Red Sea said anything to that effect. Or did I miss something?

Most Venues have a screening process and know, who it is, that they're hiring to play ahead of time and have vetted the band enough to know that they're for real and present a professional front with good song sets. Uh, what? I've never had that happen. The food and also the drinks should be a draw ON THEIR OWN! Wait a minute, guy. Are you talking about playing at Famous Dave's or something? It is reasonable therefore...with that protocol, that decent bands are going to enter thier doors to entertain and ...decent food and drink will be served and customers know this as well. Uh, last time I went to see a show, I didn't give a shit about the menu. It's a classic case of,"rip offs are not a part of the market, because bad wares are not sold." The venues do what the common sense business would do to insure that "good wares" in the form of drinks, eats AND music are thier staple product.

Now, at this point, I must apologize if I have offended you. But to keep the market stable, even and viable, NO BAND SHOULD EVER PLAY FOR FREE...even if they're just getting a free bar tab, they should at least be getting SOMETHING. Musicians, on the whole, have sacrificed to be where they are just as you have, they should not have to act as an ad agency to insure your bottom line. Go price out instruments, rehearsal time, creating demos etc. It adds up my friend. Every venue owner should be REQUIRED TO DO THAT! What fucking planet are you transmitting from where horses grow that high? If they did, I'm sure they would think twice before asking musicians to play free or verify thier worth. Motherfucker, that's the third time. It's spelled T H E I R. E then I. You're a grown-ass adult. Start spelling like one.

If you have run into a band that is lazy,and I know very few who are, they are NOT the norm, but it is usually a given that the venue that has paved the way for their own success and the "entertainment" is an add-on... not their means of support. Why do I have no idea what the fuck that last sentence means? On the other hand, if you would like to come to my house party and pour wine and beer for free and if the clientelel at my establishment like you ...they can pay or not, after all.... you ARE getting the opportunity to present your wares to an unknown crowd, you should be grateful. Cheers.
  • Location: NW MPLS.
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RE: RE: RE: The Red Sea (ChoMoville)


Date: 

Not just any, you have to lock your victim in a dog kennel first!
  • Location: ChoMoville
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Rerererererere Red Sea (West Skank)


Date: 

My band played at the Red Sea a couple years ago. It sucked. The place has zero built in crowd. Both times I went to the Red Sea, once for my friend's band, Not Cool Zeus, and the other time for the Hairdresser's band, the place was pretty hopping. Calling it a dive is way too generous. Not really, it's actually pretty accurate.
It is a first time sorta place to play. Like the person you lose your virginity to. You think you're in love up until it happens and then afterward you feel kind of ooky about the whole thing. Don't expect to draw any crowd, don't expect to get paid. Also a lot like losing your virginity. Play it once and move on to the Terminal Bar (which is alright in my book...glad Flem was able to reopen the place). Then move on to other venues (if you have some well known hipster types in your band that are in more popular bands too...thus getting radio play, press, etc...). Then take over the galdanged world you little dreamers! Fly, fly away...
  • Location: West Skank
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RE:RED SEA (St. Paul/Mpls./Anoka)


Date: 

I can't believe there are afew douche bags responding on craig's list to DEFEND the venue! WTF! NO WONDER the music scene is dying in the metro! The music scene is not dying, dicktit, quit overreacting. People have been posting about a dead or otherwise dying music scene since I moved here seven years ago. It's not dying, you just didn't get famous. ANY decent band that has rehearsed enough and equiped themselves through acquisition of gear and skills and has the confidence to play... should NEVER and I mean NEVER agree to play even a hole in the wall bar without SOME form of compensation. Good talk, Dad.

A few of you who have responded to these ads GET IT. You definitely understand if musicians agree to sell themselves for NOTHING, they reap, you guessed it...NOTHING! To the rest of you...you seriously are the ones making it hard to hold venues to any kind of standard. If you recognize that your talent and contribution as a musician/band has value, then you are under an obligation to ALL musicians to demand compensation for that value. Fuck you, aint nobody obligated to nobody for shit. If a band wants to play for free, they have every right to play for free. I bet you're one of those weird motherfuckers that hated Napster. Otherwise we all might just as well be spinning disks as a DJ. Or...in the case of Red Sea...listen to a juke box. Is there something wrong with a jukebox?

To anyone that defends venues, here you go again, as you obviously did not listen earlier when this was posted...if you would like to come to my house party and pour wine and beer for FREE Oh, it's you again. and if the clientelel Why is it that I'm not surprised that you misspelled the same word the same way? at my establishment like you ...they can pay or not, after all.... you ARE getting the opportunity to present your wares to an unknown crowd, you should be grateful. This logic is rational and criticism proof and yet some will still ignore this or write it off. Let me ask all you clowns who oppose this idea....when was the last time you saw a doctor GIVE away anything, I don't know, like in the Red Cross, Doctors without Borders, at sliding scale clinics in impoverished urban centers. how about a dentist I'm sure that there are just as many volunteer dentists as there are doctors, they just don't get the same press. or a hairdresser, I have dated a hairdresser (not "the Hairdresser") who cut her friends hair. Chef, Hello. or how about a nurse perform biopsy and blood tests free.... See the part with the doctor. jeeeeze what has to be done to get through to you people!
  • Location: St. Paul/Mpls./Anoka
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Re...eeee.... Red Sea (minneapolis)


Date: 

Ya know....Iv've played the Red Sea before.....I recall we played on a Friday night and got a $1 per head who paid at the door....seemed fair....we pulled about 90 people......sold 25 CDs at $10, 2 Vinyl at $20,, each band member had two drink tickets, Wait wait wait... only two drink tickets?
...
...
...
Fuck this place.
we met other bands we could join up with in the future, had a great sound mix from the board, and had a great time. Total we walked away with about $400 divided by four...each of us had $100 in our pockets. We practiced probably 50 hours before the show so at the end of the day we made about $2 per hour. For real? That's how you see it? That would be fine...except we had to pay for the pesky rehearsal space $400. How much did we make ...ZIP. No. You made four hundred dollars. Turns out that you had four hundred dollars in expenses. So you did make a profit of four hundred dollars but netted zero. It's called accounting, guy, and you're talking to the guy that loves to do his own taxes. (By the way, if any of y'all need help with your taxes this year, I'll help you out for fifty bucks.) Would I do it again...hell yes. Would I play there if there was no pay to the band from the club directly. Sure. Life is about living not money. You sound like a goddamned hippie so it pains me to actually agree with you.
  • Location: minneapolis
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Red Sea posts (Everywhere)


Date: 
Reply to: see below

Lots of noise about the Red Sea post. Understandable of course.

First of all, the pay to play thing Am I missing something? Are posts getting deleted because I'm pretty sure that nobody's said shit about the pay-to-play model. is not very popular and unfortunately, young bands get sucked into the scam because they want to play gigs. Understandable. But not reasonable. MyAfton and Gorilla productions made it a national scam and therefore, places like The Red Sea and other venues who are desperate think they can apply the same model. For real, what am I missing? Doesn't work like that. A venue advertising on Craigslist needs to serious consider their business model and wake up a little.

Selling tickets to a show is not out of the question. But, the way it works is you get to keep at least half of the ticket sales. The venues depend on their money from sales of alcohol Thank you. or by ticket sales from more popular bands. Bands used to negotiate a percentage of the door, but those days are gone due to the economy and all the scams out there. So, selling some tickets is not a band thing unless you only get a buck a ticket.

The Fine Line's model is very reasonable for starter bands, for example. You play a show case night, usually a Monday or Tuesday and invite everyone you can. Free entry, if you bring in more than 15 people you get a little money, not much, but the more you bring in, the more you get. The risk is that they expect people to drink a little so they can make a few bucks. If you draw, you get a better slot next time. What the Red Sea is attempting to do is something between what First Ave does adding a bit of Afton and Gorilla to it. The problem is it simply does not work that way and bands get burned one way or another. The death of the music scene Again, the scene is not dead. is due to the scamming and greed. More venues need to start looking at business models such as The Fine Line.

Starter bands are what is called an "opening act". No shit? A term that has been around for a long time. Well, thanks for the heads up, Wikipedia editor! If an opening act does well, they progress. Why, I simply had no idea that that was how it worked. Oh, shit! Really. Now that explains everything. No wonder I was getting blown on stage at Wembley Stadium when I was fourteen. Here I thought that shit was automatic and it turns out that a band has to work for it. Here I thought I was doing something wrong but it turns out that that really is the natural order of things. Venues also need to promote the bands. The problem is that most of these sub standard venues wanting bands to sell tickets in advance do not advertise. They expect the band to do it all. Kind of stupid since it is extremely cheap to put up a few posters. The problem with the Red Sea is the location It's got an OK location. But just OK. I mean, it's West Bank, which is pretty cool. and no many quality customers want to go there.

What they need to do is quit bitching and BS'ing people though. I know of a few bands that have been called at the last minute to play the next day and they wanted them to sell tickets to do so. Oh, really? Right, like you can sell enough tickets in less than a day, all while trying to get your band together for a last minute gig. No shit. If you call them on it, they get offensive and hang up on you. Not very good business protocol. There is place in the music market for The Red Sea, they simply need to look at their business model and start consulting people who understand the music business, marketing and how the younger starter bands work. Its not rocket science. The main clue for anyone is if a venue is advertising on Craigslist, well, that should be enough said......

Good luck Red Sea, hope you get your business model fixed and are able to help the musicians out their looking for a break.
  • Location: Everywhere
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Re: Red Sea whiners and jerks. (Self Important City)


Date: 

This is awesome Craigslist stuff here. These back and forth ranty threads always end up with people using it as an excuse to brag about themselves and all the things they "know". Although, to tell the truth I love it all. I love the bitchy unprofessional posts by the venue worker. I love the instigating one liners about the child molester (Which are actually true, !? by the way). I love staunch opinions about how things ought to be and how they were better at one time. I love the idea that the music scene is being crushed by a law that was passed in 1986. You see? Again, some posts must have gotten flagged and deleted because I haven't read shit about 1986. I love name calling in the posts that always end with something like "I hope I didn't offend" or "Have a nice day". These are especially good because they're a perfect example of Minnesota passive aggressiveness. These are great examples to show your out of state friends what life is like here. I know, right? The vast majority of my audience is from out-of-state. They slurp this shit up.

So I guess this is kind of a rave. Please keep up the dialogue, reading your outpourings has turned into a guilty pleasure of mine. I'm right there with you, boo. Not that I give a shit what some stranger on the internet has to say, but your rants say quite a bit about what kind of person you are. And that is fascinating. It's why I started posting these dumb fucks six years ago.
  • Location: Self Important City
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Re: Red Sea (Metro)


Date: 

I can't believe the long drawn out posts with perfect grammar striving to get a point across. If you word it just right it might be believable. I've been doing this for a long time.If you keep givin it away, there wont be anywhere to play. In the last 25 years we have lost 80% of our music venues. Really? You mean to tell me that four out of every five music venues have shuttered their doors since then? That for every one venue we presently have, in 1987 there were five? That there were four hundred percent more venues twenty five years ago. Literally taking the number of clubs we presently have and multiplying that number by fucking five. You expect me to believe that? Most of the really great players that had something to say have quit. I'm am not giving it a way to a bar owner that doesn't know how to run his biz! 98% of club owners want you to do their job! You sure do love the percentages. That's getting people in their bar. Think about it for one minute. If you are from Maple Grove, How are you going to get anybody to drive to S.St. Paul? I don't know. Try establishing a presence in Maple Grove and South Saint Paul so that your fans don't have to commute? I mean, do bands from from LA bitch about not having an instant crowd during their first show in San Diego? The band from NYC that's never played in Buffalo, do they figure that they're just going to walk into a packed room their first time? Be patient. Build a presence. Also? Move the fuck out of Maple Grove. With these laws are you kidding. What laws? Can somebody enlighten me on what the fuck he's talking about? Most clubs Most clubs, mind you. have burned out their locals with high prices and shitty service with really bad attitudes and nothing going on to keep people coming back not to mention karaoke! Let me see, you want me to come in and spend money putting up with bad bar help, some sour voices singing to a machine or a really shitty band because you cant afford good entertainment. I'm not much on country but go over to Tobie Keiths and watch that bar work. What? They have it down. Go up to order a drink. If someone hasn't served you in 60 seconds with a great big smile, they are f,n up. The same thing applies to a small bar. Stop givin it away and make these owners do their job!
  • Location: Metro
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Somewhere, Beyond The Sea. (All)

I have no idea if this is even tangentially related but on the off-chance that it is...

Date: 

The situation is self-correcting. Music will continue to decline.
Then some bar will get right with Ascap, and pay some
five-piece jazz-group to play legacy tunes. This little bar on
a side street will have the neighbors in an uproar about the noise
and street traffic, but the bar won't want to give it up, so the harrangue
makes the papers, and all those people who like clarinets will join the throng.
Noticed by some bigger room, a college band will be hired and supported by the house,
and then I will go there and witness the miracle.
Somebody likes PCP.
  • Location: All
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RE: Red Sea (venue listing) (Uptown)


Date: 

Regarding this list of good and bad venues: I think it differs from band to band. Some you listed as bad (Amsterdam, 331, Nomad) OK, clearly a good chunk of these posts have been flagged as spam before I could get to them. Also? Keith told me that Amsterdam makes a bomb ass sandwich. have been very good for my band, both in pay and treatment in general, while some of your good ones (Big V's, Hexagon) have screwed me royally in the past. I think what it comes down to is that a lot of these venues will treat a band subpar if they think they can get away with it. Meaning the key is to come in with some swagger, make sure you know who's in charge of what, and ask for payment details at the beginning, not the end, of the night. And for the love of Pete, don't expect to get paid if you're the opening band and you all leave right after your set. Make sure someone stays til the end, unless the venue is ok with paying you before the night's done. I've never seen that happen but OK.

Regarding the Red Sea: screw that place. They haven't even been on my radar for damn near 10 years. Its too bad because they have a decent stage, but no, whoever put up that post, it is NOT the band's job to get people into YOUR bar. A good club cultivates an audience, a repeat audience. You know, clientele. What the hell good does it do you in the long run if I get my family through the door? THEY WON'T BE BACK THE NEXT NIGHT. Duh.

Let me make this clear. The job of the musician is: play music. Spend years and years and lord knows how much money on your craft, and then still be ok with getting onstage for $20. I am. I don't' expect much, but I do expect courtesy. Of course any self-respecting band is going to do their level best to draw a crowd, but that can't be their sole, or even primary responsibility. The Red Sea clearly wants young bands because yeah, there is that narrow-ass window of 19-22 or so when people live in dorms and other such situations where you can get the word out to a lot of people with minimal effort and expenditure. And those people will be able to come see a band at 12:30 on a Tuesday night because they have lives that permit it. For those few years anyway.

The bottom line here is that whoever posted the article that started this back-and-forth is clearly someone who doesn't give two shits about music. They care about bodies in the room. Which is fine, but they should at least own it. Because if they cared about anything beyond that, they wouldn't have been so stupid as to post something that's going to put The Red Sea even farther down on the shitlist of 95% of the musicians in this scene. Or, come to think of it, they wouldn't have let a child molester keep booking shows for a year after he got busted. Dayum! Yeah, we remember that too, Red Sea. That was the final straw for me, actually.


  • Location: Uptown
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Re re re Red Sea (Not a molester)


Date: 

Now come on kids. Child abuser. Dude locked his girlfriends daughter in a dog kennel as punishment for gettin into his stash. Oh, that's totally better.

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